Recent Posts
Admin
Oct
6
Feedback and a sense of perspective
October 6, 2008 |
Two days ago we stated what we thought of hundreds of lurkers who refused to participate in CLICK Host’s Pick voting.
We earned the ire of some of you, and got constructive feedback from others. What we also gained is perspective, which in Alan Kay’s words, “is worth 80 IQ points.” We would like to share the insights we gained, especially with our fellow bloggers who may wonder what their readers’ profiles and interests are.
Once in a while, it’s good to invite your readers to de-lurk and speak their minds. If you expect something out of your readers, say so. And ask them what they expect from you. Yes, we blog because we like to. To us it is worth all the time and effort. However, we DO have certain expectations from our readers, just as most people have expectations from guests visiting their home.
Interaction is always healthier when the exchange is open and the expectations are clear. We did not expect to like or agree with all the feedback we got, but overall, it was a positive, learning experience.
When we posted about “lurkers who don’t vote” two days ago, we were outlining our expectations. The stats show a definite spurt in reader interest during the week when voting, results and the next theme for CLICK are announced.
“If you come here especially to see what’s going on at CLICK, we expect you to vote. It shows support for all those who put in their efforts to make this event worthwhile.”
That’s what we were saying. Some of you may be of the opinion that we should have zero expectations of our readers. Well that’s an expectation you have of us - to have no expectations. We have our expectations, you have yours. It’s not wrong, unethical or controlling to have expectations.
We organise a photo event and from that flows many expectations - that we will compile the entries, post a roundup, announce winners, etc. within a timeframe. Similarly, we expect interaction and participation from those who send in their entries and those who read the posts pertaining to CLICK. No one’s compelling us to organise an event. That’s true. But it is also true that a lot of people want us to have it. The problems arise when we try to figure out how to go about meeting the expectations on all sides.
Our expectations were based on various assumptions. Now, after getting your feedback, our assumptions have changed, leading us to revise our expectations.
Bottomline: When it comes to CLICK, we have THREE broad categories of readers.
1: Those who aren’t interested in CLICK.
Our assumption: The majority of our readers ARE interested in and follow CLICK.
WRONG.
We were using two data points.
1. As mentioned above, there are some folks who visit our site specifically during the week CLICK activity takes place. Many of them directly visit our image gallery.
2. Most of our reader interaction pertains to CLICK.
We have three blog-related e-mail IDs. If you read the mails we get, there’s an unmistakable cadence that goes something like “CLICK… post clockety results clickety voting clackety photo CLICK.” Hundreds of e-mails go in and out of these inboxes each month and they have a lot to do with CLICK.
When your face is two inches from the wall, your perspective is bound to be skewed. We had assumed that a majority of our readers are interested in photography in general and food photography in particular. WRONG.
What do MOST of the readers who send us e-mail requests and suggestions about CLICK and those who are enthused about CLICK have in common?? They have food blogs or active Flickr accounts.
Over the past two days, we got some interesting new insights in our comments form and by e-mail from readers who chose to de-lurk. To sum up what they told us, politely and graciously of course,
“Pull your heads out from where the sun don’t shine. Not everyone is interested in staged food photos. I am not. I come to your site for other reasons.”
What’s common between these folks? They are not food bloggers. This is a generalisaton, but by and large it is true. They enjoy the eye candy but are not excited by it enough to participate in CLICK with their entries or votes. Some of them focus on the text and don’t care for the eye candy at all. Fair enough. Not everyone has to like what we like.
Heck, even we tire of staged food photos from time to time. Both of us haven’t touched our camera for a while now.
It’s just that based on the interactions and feedback we were getting thus far, we had a distorted picture of what our readers like on our site.
Simply stated, we have two very different types of readers who enjoy very different aspects of our posts. The bloggers and Flickr folks mostly follow CLICK. They are also more interactive and open in making their views known, while the non-bloggers are a bit more reticent in that respect. Over the past two days, we did get a lot more feedback from the latter than we normally would have and for that we are grateful.
2. Those who want to vote and participate, but cannot because of various factors.
Our assumption: The process is much much simpler than it used to be. We asked for feedback a few months ago, got great ideas, and implemented them. We thought it works fine for everyone.
WRONG.
It still takes people 15 to 20 minutes. Seriously, we do not expect anyone to be willingly tied down for 20 minutes figuring out how to register their choices for a photo event.
It takes us 2 minutes each month to vote and didn’t anticipate it taking much longer for others. Again, it’s a matter of perspective. The process is much easier for us since we are familiar with it, have a lightning-fast internet connection and have seen the pictures many times over the month.
Based on your latest suggestions we’ve put together a new format keeping those with broadband connections in mind. Everything takes place on ONE page, the checkboxes are directly below the pics, and loading times should be MUCH MUCH faster.
Try it out for the new round of CLICK. The button will take you to the voting page. We have picked 15 favourites from the list of 108 entries. You pick 3.
SUPERCLICK
If you still have problems, please post a comment here. Or by e-mail . We don’t bite. Really.
Some participants seem to think that it is not “right” for them to vote if their entry is part of the lineup. Not true. A lot of participants vote. It’s perfectly okay to vote for your own entry too. We encourage EVERYONE to vote.
3: Those who follow CLICK, enjoy it, but refuse to vote just because ….
RIGHT.
These are the folks our earlier post was addressed to. They are not the majority, though. We got some feedback saying, “What’s in it for me?”.
Nothing, really, except the satisfaction of knowing that your vote may enthuse someone who took the trouble to send in his/her entry. Again, it was an observation from our perspective. We spend 10 to 12 manhours each month organising CLICK. Our participants spend several hours taking pics and sending them in. So do our judges entering scores. We just don’t get why someone who enjoys the event and follows it would not spend a few minutes looking at the pics and clicking a couple of checkboxes.
We do it, the participants do it, the judges do it because they LIKE to. And these folks who enjoy CLICK and go to the image gallery several times a month obviously LIKE the effort they are seeing. Saying “What’s in it for me?” is not entirely honest.
Guess what, we cannot control how our participants feel and how our readers who do follow CLICK would like to make them feel. You send in your entry and wonder why not enough people vote? They don’t have to and it is not up to us to ensure they do.
We are glad to have heard back from each one of you. If you feel strongly about something, send us an e-mail. Once in a while, it’s good to be reminded that
Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. ~ Marcus Aurelius
- Bee and Jai
blogging, feedback, MUSINGS, NaBloWriMo
I read your blog every day. I await your thoughtful and creative take on food, life and everything in between. I began sincerely voting for CLICK after you asked us to a few months ago. I still thought the process a bit cumbersome but did my due diligence because I should since you provide me daily inspiration.
The new one page process is just right. Last month, I spent 10 mins, today just 2! Simple interaction design and no page flipping and no memorizing which picture was whose.
Thank you
Vishakha
dear vishakha, i know you vote each month. thank YOU.
I assumed the same, that many visitors are pretty interested in Photos/techniques or concepts but seems your words/Thoughts/informations are much powerful than a pict…
Kudos for the idea! I wish that everyone who visit the “click event” keep in mind the effort of participant , judge, and team !
The “new click voting system” is much pratical
Hi,
Im a reg lurker..Thank you for your amazing recipes..Everything that I’ve tried so far has come out great.I mainly come for the recipes and your write up..I have tried voting before..but just found the process taking too long..I like the new system it just took me 2 mins to caste my vote.
Thought I’d de-lurk and let you know.
cheers!!
….and i voted…:) its much easier this way..thank-you!
This was so much easier. But it took me longer this time becoz it was a tough decision:-) All the pics were great in their own way.
Do excuse me if my vote came in twice, after I clicked on “vote” the page kinda froze for 5 full minutes. I thot I forgot to click on vote.. and I did it again when I got the message that its still processing the first request. And after that the page showed nothing except the side bars till I refreshed.:-( sorry about that.
Great change to the CLICK voting page. Now it takes a few seconds to vote! I just tried it and will try to participate in all the votings from now on
Much better! Much much much better! What I did was check all the pics that made it in my first shortlist. Then I looked at just those again and shortlisted further. And so on until I had three.
OK, so I am lying. I checked all 16 and can’t uncheck any. New problem. Arrrrgh! Houston, are you reading me?
Oh and one major CLICK related complaint: count how many posts you have racked up for NaBloWriMo using CLICK. *sob* I was counting on 4 posts from me: hey I’m a judge, admire my entry, c’mon folks last few days, congrats to the winners. *sob*
Now I will have to do 4 memes.
serves you right for checking all 15. it’s the plugin. maybe we need to find another one. as for NaBlo… and CLICK, 4 down another let’s say 6 to go.
Since I was one of the many people who suggested the image being visible in the voting area, it would only be fair if I vote. And that I did. Good job in implementing it this quickly!
Hi,
I visit ur blog every now and then just to have a look at the recipes posted and to have a look at the wonerful pictures u guys take.Maybe from the coming month i will cast my vote if the new process dosen’t take a long time and also if my 4 yr old lets me do.
but i would still like to be a silent reader.
Thank you.
I had been trying since a coupel of times (every time I came to your site) to leave a comment , now I’m getting the time for it. To your previous click “story” I wanted to say that I only got to the voting by chance. Maybe, I’m too new to it. I’d like to vote for sure, whenever I had seen it, I have. The last time, I only saw three pictures, strangely, and the rest was repeatition of the third one. Don’t know if the problem was with my computer?
I did find it difficult to reach the right place earlier. Anyways, now it is seems to be much easier. Thanks!
it may have had something to with your cache. in any case, if you want to know what’s currently going on with click, there is an icon in the right sidebar that will take you to the relevant page.
Thanks to you guys for making this so much simpler
Jai & Bee, I am one of those who has no reason why I should not vote, except for the last time when Rajesh said he did. I just need a wack and reminder to say how lazy I am
It takes a lot of work from your end to do this which I truly appreciate. I seriously will try to remember to vote..really!
Oh yeah..voting is a lot simpler. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
Thank you for the great new voting format and for all your effort. This format is certainly very friendly and easier as I can check my choices as I look at the pictures.
I have not voted in every edition of Click, but I do read your blog regularly. I normally don’t leave a comment if I don’t have anything useful to say, but I do get the point now - it is rude to drop by someone’s home and not say hi! I apologize for the times I have been rude without really giving it a thought!
Thank U !! U have made it so much easier to vote! It just takes a couple of mins!
voted…much simpler! Thank you!
Guess I missed all the excitement, I am in the midst of moving but I think (?) I voted. I enjoy the creativity of the folks who enter click, and I have learned a great deal about photographing food. Still not a pro, but I am trying
Great post!
late to the party, but I do agree with all the points you’ve made and most of the ones in the comments of the prev post.. The best of my friends don’t read my blog, and even if they do they don’t ‘get’ the effort behind the photos, so yes, not everyone is interested. And the check-box below the image is a wonderful convenience, thank you soo much for that. I would always get confused (over the choices and the mismatch in names), and would make that a memory game for the latter. About the non-bloggers not commenting and not always interested in click, very true. Unless you get into it you can never truly appreciate the effort and creativity.
And yes, no more Click related posts for Nablo…unfair
love the new voting system. pics loaded super fast and it was lovely to see the old winners back in here. I loved Manisha’s martini glass pic back then too and its great to see it again and better still to be able to vote for it - again
almost zeroed in on a new camera, can’t wait for the next click!
Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. ~ Marcus Aurelius
So true that.
Love the new format for voting for click! Much much easier. Enjoyed looking at the gorgeous pics.
This is really simple. And guys where do u get energy for all these ?
Dear Jai and Bee,
I read your posts with interest regularly, primarily because your blog belongs to that rare breed of interesting and committed vegetarian blogs.I am not really into food photography and I am glad you understand that not everyone that visits your blog shares your enthusiasm for food photography.This does’nt mean we donot appreciate your creativity and your support to the food photography fraternity.I sometimes spend atleast 30-40 mins on your blog for no reason other than that my toddler allows me 5minutes/half a paragraph at a stretch and it takes me that much time to read a reasonably long post.My times’ up….
Warm regards,
Vimala
nice changes, i try to vote every month but I am sure I have missed a few, sometimes it definitely took more than 3 minutes but anyway, I am glad you are receptive to change and I definitely enjoy the photos sometimes more than the text so I will have to do a better job
Hi,Another lurker.. I am so sorry. I could never decided which to pick as each one would be better than the other. My mistake. A whack set it all right. I have voted.
This voting is simpler. Wish you many more clicks, Bee & Jai
this was much simpler…and the virtual reprimand worked…i voted…
but yes, its a visual delight and a pleasure to read through but voting was something I never really considered probably because there were too many pictures…
Oh, yes! Worked like a dream! Two minutes!
Great work Bee and Jai!
Ok. I was seriously thinking i would see that the event is discontinued message at the end of the post. I was indeed surprised to see a simpler version of it - I did vote.
I just saw this post and realise I didn’t read the previous one because it didn’t seem to have a recipe that appeals (and when I am busy I don’t have time to open every post in my blog reader) I love a good photo (and you have many here) but it is really your recipes and text I come here for.
I think I probably come into the category 1, but I do comment on recipes and text when I have something to say! I suspect Click is a good competition but it doesn’t really register with me and I never think my photos worthy to even consider it. But I think there is lots of good stuff on the blog and it shouldn’t be a bad thing if different readers are interested in different aspects of it!
That’s superfast! The voting process! How much of efforts might have gone into programing the New Voting process is apparent. (Hv to mention here, everytime I come on JB page, I just hv to b interupted, several times leaving the screen on,for hours together and later having to close the window with either half-read post or so! -u might get details thru my IP. But still, count me in the ‘Love this site’ group! Mostly I make it a point to comment on the nature photography as they appeal a lot more to me, the next being CLICK!)
It would be nice if everyone thought of things the same way…or would it? I look at the whole like this: the Click event is a “coming together” of like mind- a communal reality- organized by a host; it bears a striking resemblance to a large party. And when a party is organized and the invitations are sent, some people come and some don’t. We all have priorities and none can argue them. But of the people who doattend, sure… a large number are whirling in the central vortex and giddily interact and participate in the excited throes of a dance of exhibition and admiration, and some people like to sit quietly on the side and watch. There is peace there. And enjoyment in the voyeurism. I think it is just great that this whole, multi-faceted phenomenon occurs… a bit like a flower blooming.
Hi Jai and Bee,
I have been a faithful reader of your blog for the past several months, it is a FANTASTIC blog!I am sorry for being a silent reader for so long:). However, I must say that I agree with the suggestions people gave you about the usability and time factor. Full points to you both for working on it immediately and taking feedback in the right perspective.
The new system is very user friendly and I have already voted!
Thanks,
Nivi
Thanks for taking the effort to making voting for CLICK so much easier. It took all of two minutes!
I have a little suggestion. I don’t know if its possible or whether its worthwhile putting in the effort.
Where you have the A, B, C, D, etc would it be possible to have thumbnails of the actual pictures?
Just that when I reached K, I wasn’t sure whether what I wanted to vote for was A, B or C.
Of course, I might be the exception and you could put it down to my faulty memory.
I’ll simply agree with what has already been written - kudos for the simpler faster voting process and apologies of my own for lurking without commenting so often. At times, without having much personal history with certain recipes or ingredients commenting almost feels like interrupting a conversation between old friends when so many others are relating personally to your dishes.
Thanks for sharing your perspective and insights.
I like the new voting system, much simpler. Thanks guys.
The new voting system for “CLICK” is more easier now…
Thanks for making the changes.
I am a regular reader of your blog….i have tried many of your recipes and they have turned out excellent..i do luv ur write ups and follow them promptly..i did vote for click last week and have been doing it in past ,but not on regular basis…..my bad for that…i couldnt remember the names of the blog/entries after seeing them in the image gallery and then going back and voting for the same..i know a ignornant excuse and due to my sheer laziness sometimes i used to just stop voting …..from now on you can count me in for sure….
Rashmi.
Hi Bee and Jai,
I am lurker who visits your site everyday and your site rocks. I love your write ups and recipes (mattar paneer recipes is just amazing) but hardly go thru the Clicks.
Dear Bee and Jai - Yet another lurker! Have been reading your blog for the past year or so, and have enjoyed your very informative articles on food (especially baking), nutrition and your travels. As others have mentioned in their messages above, am not that interested in food photography. Glad to read your post today - I probably belong to category 1.
Many thanks for the lovely recipes you post - I tried out the Thai red curry recently, and it was scrumptious!
Just did the voting… New process is really easy…
Is it possible to put thumbnails of the images next to the checkbox??? Just a suggestion…. All the pictures are so good that you feel like going through them again and again before you make your mind.
I am a regular lurker on your site. Didn’t get a chance to comment on your previous post but thought I should add my two cents. I love your blog, the receipes, the writeups and the photos (though CLICK didn’t really interest me). Have tried a few of the receipes and they have come out well. But I mainly come here for the write-up (I stay in the same area so your pics inpire me to explore all the areas that I probably would never have visited- Thx!). Like the new voting checkboxs for CLICK so I might actually vote now.
Kiran
Hurray……….!!! Its very easy to vote now.did it in less than 5 min!! Thank you for simplifying this.
So much quicker. Thank you.
I like the new Click voting system! Way to incorporate all the feedback right away. You guys are so on the ball…
I wouldnt place myself in the ‘lurker’ category as described by you, because I have been commenting whenever I have had something to say on your posts. But yes, I havent been a regular voter for CLICK either. I wouldnt go into the reasons/excuses as they have already been covered in the previous posts.
Thanks a lot for making the voting process much easier & faster now. Just voted for this month’s edition
Much easier. Thanks.
Wow…that was easy! Super work guys simplifying the voting process. Thanks for all your effort and time. I put in my vote.
Hey, thanks for listening. The voting process is much better now. mmmm (that’s my cat’s contribution. Do any of you have “assistants” at the computer?)
Okay - after all those words and some more around them, here’s my take on it.
You create this website and post on it because you like it. Readers, viewers, lurkers, commentators, spectators, whole-lot-of-nothing’ers come here because 1) they like it 2) accidentally came across it. Plain and simple.
Now look, nobody among the later did ever compel, plead, request, solicit, force, suggest, pressurize, energize, ask, expect, beg you to write a post or conduct an event or organize a campaign. Then why should you do the same for the votes? And even if you did, why should anyone change their course of action?
After all, voting is at will. There’s no vote collection here. Everyone has right to vote but many may choose not to vote. Its democarcy. You tried infuencing people to vote. Ok. Fine. Its your site. People can still choose to ignore it. Its their life.
So all the lame and supposedly intelligent and funny reasons for blaming these good people such as and I quote -
spoil their manicures, They have more talent in their little finger than all our participants put together, They got a hangover downing a six-pack, and so on, is PURE derogatory and insulting and hurtful and cocky of you.
Own what you said was wrong and stop putting words and PERCEPTION of “SENSE of PERSPECTIVE” around it! Ha!
Hope you won’t repeat this blunder again. Good luck.
Your well wisher (so called LURKER)
we take readers’ comments and feedback seriously. yours is not one of them. thanks, nevertheless.
1. you are plain wrong about people not ‘asking’ us to incorporate new features. every single one of our readers responded with ‘yes’ when we asked them if we should continue the voting. we do get tons of requests by e-mails asking for features. thankfully, they do it politely and constructively and we try to incorporate their suggestions whenever possible. do not profess to speak on their behalf. we value their feedback.
2. if you profess to speak on behalf of those who don’t want to participate and are NOT interested in CLICK, we weren’t talking to that group in the first place. we respect their choice not to vote. if you follow CLICK and think it’s beneath you to vote, and choose to de-lurk just to be snarky under the guise of anonymity, that’s lame.
you don’t have to change your course of action. as you say, it’s a democracy. no one is forced to read anything here, especially if they find it “lame”, “derogatory”, “hurtful” or “cocky”. likewise, we don’t have to pay attention to those who only come out of the woodwork to lecture us while choosing not to participate otherwise. hope you won’t repeat this blunder. good luck.
your well wishers,
bee and jai
Completely agree with “So called LURKER”! Very candidly expressed.